Doreah the nude on-line sex chat with hottest babes with a hd cam
6K Share
Doreah, 28 y.o.
Location:
Room subject:
To Start on-line video press there
On-line Live Sex Chat rooms Doreah
Related
More videos
4K
8K
7K
2K
2K
6K
8K
9K
6K
9K
3K
5K
7K
2K
7K
106 thoughts on “Doreah the nude on-line sex chat with hottest babes with a hd cam”
Comments
God you're insufferable.
Not this troll again
I am at the same position bro… sucks a lot
I went through this. I finally pulled the trigger one day and left and THANK GOD I did. i'm so happy now. my life is so fkn different it's insane I can cry thinking about how much I would of settled if I stayed. The partner I have now I couldn't even imagine existed. I thought my ex was the best I was ever going to get and that was it for me. I stayed for 5 years and should of left at year 2. I can only speak from my experience but damn I truly suffered so much in my past relationship. cried, begged, pleaded. The life I have today is so far from that and it's all because I finally did what was best for me and I fought through the pain and made it out on the other side. Being comfortable in one's arms and safe is incredible but imagine having that + so much more ina. partner. A sex life at that. A relationship free of resentment. A partner that will do anything to see and make you smile. Getting to this side of things made every single tear and therapy appointment worth every second. Life's to short OP. make it count ?
that’s a saying, it’s not anyone trying to force religion. i’m in recovery from addiction and that’s something that my sponsor has said to me before, to me it meant that my situation happened for a reason bc the universe is protecting me from my situation becoming worse than it was if the person stayed
She sounds extremely immature, look for someone more responsible and emotionally stable.
It’s okay if he did it since you already broke up at that time but the lying part is nahhh
To be honest, any time my family got together she was usually the missing person from it all. I think this trip was really about her wanting to come ski.
Maybe, at that point I just wasn't having a great time or felt appreciated and I didn't think my time off was going to be well spent if I stayed and she wasn't talking or engaging with me.
Does he know that you know about these things? He’s already shown you who he is and you can’t change people unfortunately
Maaaan girl please end it. You are so young! I wasted 4 years of my life with an equally apathetic guy from the ages of 19-23 and it destroyed my confidence. I’m now with a guy who makes me feel like the most special girl in the world. These men are still out there!
I think events like this can be VERY important life lessons. This has shown you who he really is. It might have taken you years to notice otherwise.
If you delete them your profile stays active unless you delete your profile properly. If you redownload the apps you'll still have matches and stuff from the time your profile was deleted.
You're right to think it's disrespectful, who would keep a shitty dating app on their phone when they're in a relationship? It's shady and not nice.
It was four fucking months OP.
Jesus christ this is bordering on scary.
Relationships end sometimes. Just move on.
I've never cared.
He was tired. I’d find it funny unless he had a pattern of doing this lol
One thing I know for sure is that he’s pushed me out of love. The way he acts during a fight, his responses, who he mentions. My mind is clocked out
OP said in another comment that he’s not. So all she has to do is kick him out.
He’s making me question myself. Saying I’m not playful enough and that I confused him by kissing him
This guy is text book creep! ??? ?
I got called a selfish fuck since she has no job and the only place for her to go is with her family which will make her life even worse
Interesting projection when her only angle is to selfishly take advantage of you. Her situation isn't your business, she could have worked on things this entire time to better her life, but didn't.
Have you considered simply telling her 'no'? You have the ultimate leverage between finances, immigration, and her family. For the sake of your future self, man up a little bit, please?
You did him a huge favor. No point getting married or wasting his time any further. He needs to find someone who is serious about marriage? Not someone who is so young and is just getting out there in life. The end result would have been a disastrous divorce. He dodged a major bullet.
Can someone enlighten me because I don’t understand what the problem is even if you were “playing with yourself”
I don’t know about y’all but it’s the best feeling having two girls in the same bed. It’s not about having sex with them, i don’t know how to explain it.
Sir you were right. She just messaged me letting me know she’s sorry and that she’s here for me no matter what. We’re both pretty emotional sensitive people due to our pasts but I think it really makes us work! Thanks for the advice stranger. ?
I hate to tell you this, but therapy might or might not work, and it's definitely not a quick fix. My background sounds exactly like your gf's. I was actually way better about sex before I got married, which seems weird. I have been in therapy for years, and I still have issues. Also, I actually have a fairly high sex drive. I can't imagine how bad it would be if I was asexual. I'm sorry, but it sounds like you are mismatched.
Congratulations on freedom. Happy Birthday ?
Do not engage with Captain Vaguebook
The thing is that he loves the aspect of devotion you have for him. That's what he loves about you. And there's nothing wrong with it. Different people love different things in others. When he saw your dedication to him, he fell in love with you. It's that simple, and it's a lot more meaningful than looks or other bullshit reasons.
If you consider it cheating then have a serious talk with him about it. Best of luck to both of you.
It wasn't an issue I thought of until recently or had kind of put aside since we had pretty regular sex and I was able to perform and she seemed happy. So I haven't had a chance to talk to my therapist about it yet but I will bring up the issue. I think it's my intense paranoia that sets in and thinks she was faking interest in sex until now even though it doesn't necessarily have to be true.
I once said to a friend ‘stop telling me things I don’t care about, about people I don’t know, in places I’ve never been’. I can tell you, this is not the way to handle it.
Strong man. Stay strong brother.
How are his time management skills at work? Because when I worked in healthcare, bad things happen if you are several hours late with meds and stuff.
If he can manage his “faults” in that context, he can extend the same courtesy to you. Not doing so is a choice on his part.
Hello /u/treesgrater,
Your post was removed for the following reason(s):
Your title did not include at least two ages/genders or was not formatted correctly
Posts must:
include details about the involved parties including ages, genders, and length of relationship, and
request advice in real situations involving two or more people
We are enforcing the two rules listed above by making all titles start with ages/genders in the following format:
[##X][##X], [## X][## X], or [##-X][##-X] where ## is the age and X is the gender (currently M, F, T, A, NB, FTM, MTF but more can be added). You can have more than two ages/genders listed, but you must have at least two at the beginning of your title. Here is an example:
[34NB][88-F] We are two people in an example post
Please resubmit with a corrected title.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
OP, you’re not in love with her; you’re in love with someone who doesn’t exist. The woman you’re in love with is someone she pretended to be and not who she really is. Who she really is, is a woman who tells you lies constantly and does whatever the hell she wants to do WITH ANOTHER MAN! Explore her bisexuality? One lunch meeting that went no where and she starts sleeping with another guy who’s married to someone else for crying out loud! She has sex in his house with his kids sleeping in their rooms! She’s a horrible, selfish cheating person.
Don’t keep her as your wife. You deserve better.
Even if he was imagining himself fucking some random stranger, who gives a fuck? Why are people so insecure?
Even if you convince him to not watch that, he is going to masturbate while thinking of other people. It's natural. It's what people do. There is frankly zero reason why you should care.
In my 33 years of age, I've learned a few things. One, is that people hate to be treated they way they treat you, they hate that you say the things they say to you. Why? Because you were always nice, and they expect that from you, even if they don't do it themselves. The first time you are not as expected, they resent that.
For years and years I was always the nice guy, saying nice things to people, sometimes controlling myself to say what I thought, but hey, what was the point in telling my friend that her baby was not that pretty or that I didn't care about constantly receiving pictures of the said baby? I didn't want to be rude, or anything.
But I'm CF too by choice and my life doesn't revolve around a kid like many of my friends (said friend for instance) and sometimes I post about a new tattoo I got, about the new cat we got (sphynx) and even a picture of my wedding and she constantly comments things like “wow, why that tattoo? It does not fit you well, don't like the design”, or “Oh your cat is ugly, I'm sorry, I don't really like those cats” and the best “Your face is weird in the wedding photo, were you comfortable?”. One day she sent me another pic of her kid and asked me “Isn't she wonderful?”. To which I replied “Sorry, I can't see how wonderful she is. I don't like kids really” and she isn't talking to me since then.
So, you have two options: 1 – Get it off your chest and be the honest person you want to be and straight off tell whatever you're feeling and your opinion about her actions and risk her resentment and maybe not being connected with that side of your family. OR 2 – Continue to indulge on her egotistical endeavors and take the high road that I couldn't take.
Everything! My husband would never say he didnt respect me, or that i dont respect myself, or take something sensitove i said and use it against me. Or make me feel disgusting. This man does NOT love hou. You are being treated so poorly. You have low self esteem if hou think this is even remotely acceptable.
That's just NHS England information, it literally says. We have a different healthcare system in Scotland. It's not the same information.
Did you pull a muscle with that huge stretch?
How does one bad choice define my entire character? If I was an immoral person I would just keep fucking her sister and not tell her
Oh my gosh!!! Leave him before he puts your life in danger!
According to his logic, if a urologist touched his dick, it would either be cheating, or gay then.
And he can only go see a professional if he is either cheating or gay.
Maybe?? Dude, you don't move in with somebody you've only been dating a few months. Further, you're still unraveling your long term relationship. Take a break from romance and don't run blindly into the next. Dating too soon. Moving in too soon. You now need to unravel THESE too.
My parents are mad he let his mum call me on his phone. Because he knew that she would ask me about my faith and ask me to be muslim.
But you are right, she will blame it on me and I never want to talk to her again. Even told him to not let her know my full name, she scared me.
I suppose I can just about understand your parents’ attitude – years ago it wasn’t frowned on so much because y’know even cigarettes were good for you then! But we know better now – the WHO has confirmed alcohol causes cancer and no amount of it is a ‘safe’ amount to drink. I’d also be outraged if someone did this to my kid. Your sister handled your concerns badly and your parents supporting her is not helpful. If you want to resolve it, I’d suggest you talk to your sister and parents together, explain that you are shocked but don’t want to ruin the relationship. Don’t try to get them to understand that they’re wrong in their belief it’s no big deal because they’ll end up on the defensive and things will probably escalate. Just explain that you were really taken aback that it happened and so want to make it clear that it’s a red line. You can say ‘whether we agree or not, I don’t want this to come between us, but it cannot happen again. Ok?’ I hope things work out.
I suggest therapy, doing the opposite of what you’re horrible no good asshole of a husband says, leave and divorce his ass, and go make amends with your kids and grandkids to make your golden years the best they can be. Of before I forget take the asshole for all he’s worth in the divorce settlement. Good luck.
Have a talk with her. Tell her you are fine with them being friends of course, but you are afraid this coworker feels something more for, thus expensive gifts. Repeat that you are fine with them as friends, but would like for her emphasise they won't be anything else should he attempt to be firtatious with her.
Not necessarily similar, but I was strung along by a girl I really liked. I mentioned I was going to a comedy show and she said she was going too with a guy. Being stupid in my 20s, I got jealous and asked her later on who he was. She said he was only a friend and that I was the only person she was seeing. We never really put a label on the relationship, but I was stupid in continuing it as long as I did. I later ended the “situation-ship”. She married the guy and got pregnant before later divorcing. She tried reaching out, but I've moved on.
Do yourself a favor and just move on.
You're having a really strong reaction to this. You ASSUMED he was free on your child-free days, did you ask/plan? 4 days with friends in Miami doesn't have to mean 4 days of partying, is that what he said was happening? It sucks that you didn't get good notice for the trip but if his friends are like my BF's they don't plan ahead they just do.
He tried to make it up to you but plans fell through. That sucks. But he tried.
I've felt this way in the past and it turned out I needed to have more realistic expectations. I actually went to therapy for help. Don't assume he's obsessed with you, you are one portion of his life not the whole thing. Same goes for you, if your plans fall through he's not your entire life, call your friends or do activities/hobbies you enjoy.
You can't expect him to never see friends because your kid is away, or for every plan you set to go unchanged. Be realistic. Things happen and plans change sometimes. If he's switching the plan ALL the time then yeah, be concerned. But this sounds like a one time thing. Keep planning and communicating, but have some understanding for him as he balances time with you and the rest of his responsibilities and relationships.
How has she betrayed his trust? Because she was curios? How did she cheat or betray him? They have been dating for four months…..
This is so fake.
There is absolutely no reason for her to be telling your private information to her friends. Don’t tell her it’s ok. It’s not.
There’s also no reason for her to stalk your ex, and even less for her to talk to you about it. This is moving into crazy territory.
Finally, you’ve moved to to her country, but she has said out loud that she can’t promise to commit to you long term because her family will not accept you.
So, to sum it up, you’re in a short term relationship with someone that doesn’t respect or care about your feelings.
I feel like he has distanced with all forms of physical attention i.e hugs, cuddles etc. This may be down to stress but again I am assuming. It's nude to be in a relationship with someone who withdraws like this.
I am so sorry for your loss. Sending you internet hugs if you want them.
Do not have a child with this guy. He is slapping red flags in your face. As far as any inheritance goes, is the house in your brother’s name or your parents? If it’s in your brother’s name, it won’t be part of the estate. It’s going to take time before you will see anything. Settling an estate is time consuming and a lot of work. P,ease be smart with any inheritance you do receive. Keep it in a separate account that your husband has no access to. You might even want to see a lawyer to keep it safe if it’s a considerable sum. You should also see a lawyer about divorcing your greedy, uncaring husband.
Please ask yourself why your manager was more willing to help you than your partner.
Yeah put her in her place man. Grab you balls and tell her to do what you want and say what you want to do. If she doesn’t like that then she can leave. You might be painfully lonely for 6 months but you’ll find someone who isn’t gonna boss you around eventually. Relationships don’t work out if the woman is in a leadership position
Too many of these comments are so gross. I saw your comment about maybe being demi. I’m demi, and I feel ya here.
I feel like what’s happening is he isn’t doing anything to keep the emotional bond between you two, in fact he’s actively destroying it. Getting pissed and breaking up with you because you don’t want to have sex because you’re sore from having sex the day before??? Excuse me??? No, that’s not a good partner, that’s not a healthy relationship.
Is he hounding you for sex on a daily basis, or almost daily basis? Because that’s a huge turn off for me. Someone else said it too, he sounds like he’s turned into a sex pest. No one’s going to be in the mood when their partner is constantly hounding them for sex.
Honestly, you should probably break up. A lot of other people have said it too but for his sake, as if he’s being wronged here. Notice they’re not acknowledging his actions, only your ‘rejections’. But you shouldn’t have to put up with his nonsense about not wanting sex because you’re still sore from sex. Let him go wank as much as he wants to by himself, you don’t need this.
Trust your gut feeling and find out some more
divorce her so she can have all the freedom she wants. Don't take her back either. It sickens me how monogamy is so “hard” for some people. I would kill for a guy to be my one and only.
Through our bleeding, we are one!
OP. I had a partner like this in my early twenties. Always accused me of cheating, isolated me from friends and socialising without him. Our relationship ended with a restraining order against him and a court date for his behaviour towards me.
Run. Run as fast as you can and do not look back.
A couple of months after I finally got the strength to get rid of him, I met my current partner. We’re about to celebrate our 12th anniversary together. I moved to another city for 3 years of our relationship and he was so hyped for the opportunities it would bring me. I have lots of friends, male and female, and it’s not even a discussion point. He doesn’t mind or care when I go and meet any of those friends for a coffee, or when they pop to our house for a catch up when he’s not there.
I want to cry for how badly I short changed myself by being with the other guy and thinking his behaviour was okay. The truth is I was a prisoner, and now I’m free.
You're his mistress, and you know it. You're not looking for guidance; you're looking for assurance. You are way too old to be doing this shit. Personally, I would end things and terminate the pregnancy because your child will not have a good life being in the middle of this.
If you aren't selfish. And he's the one in pain. Why does it matter how you want to comfort him instead of how he wants to be alone? The answer is space. “Hey, I'm sorry I didn't believe you, I won't push to see or talk to them again, I'll be in the living room when you need me and I'll bring you something to eat around 5 and leave it outside the door.”
She sounds like a piece of shit, definitely not a sweetheart.
Lol not even a second time, wouldn’t want to go through life married to someone like that.
Yeah the supposed onus is on her to say well no I don’t want them, even though OP hasn’t done shit
You're the one in the wrong here. Just have your parents choose your husband for you.
Jesus Christ, we get that they weren’t official. What you don’t understand is that it doesn’t matter! If he was dating some random person and you slept with him, you’d have a point. I wouldn’t do it personally, but you’d be in the clear.
But someone your sister is dating?? Nope. That’s fucked. No decent person would do that to their sibling, regardless of whatever technicalities about their exclusivity you try to use to squirrel out of it. We get they weren’t exclusive, but you don’t seem to get that it doesn’t matter if they were or not.
Actually yes, you will. Enjoy your evening.
Your balls grow and get more saggy , but your dick doesn’t grow as you age. She should see a doctor.
It’s true ? I’m not planning to be in relationship with him instead I want to make friends with him! I think such connection matters ( this connection just like a familiarity so I think it means the destiny
What does moving out “to find herself” really mean? Because I immediately think of that meaning she wants to explore other people and experience different things. And she can’t really do that if you’re still living together. I’m guessing, since you guys got together at such a young age, she probably didn’t have to opportunity to do this beforehand.
Selling your house really drives in the point of you guys likely not making it. Not only is she separating herself from you, by moving out, but also trying to get rid of the one big thing you built together. Housing has gone up so much in most places. I don’t think it’s wise to leave the housing market because it’ll be harder to get back in. See if you can buy her out, that way you still have your home, even if she leaves.
You want to communicate minimum once a day.
He takes days to a week to reply to your texts.
This is a fundamental incompatibility.
How long have you been dating? Is this long distance temporary? Did you used to live! near each other or is there a plan to online near each other in the future?
Prior to this job, did you quit the last one for the same reason? Did you quit before having a job lined up?
To be clear, I’m ultimately on your side here, but I want all the facts so that I can give you the most accurate advice.
The short answer is it doesn't matter
Abuse is abuse. It doesn't matter if it's autism or her just being an asshole, you're under no obligation to tolerate it.
Stop freaking out. Too far apart to really have an impact on anything.
I’m very sorry you two are in this position, but please do not do this.
There’s really no safe way to punch someone and knock them out. It’s not like in movies. A knock out happens because of brain trauma against the skull. Do it wrong and it will cause a concussion. Do it very wrong and it will cause death. If you hit someone in the head and they’re out for hours, they probably won’t wake up again.
She’s better off taking a sleep aid to knock her out, because a punch isn’t going to stop the side effects of eating the food either. It doesn’t matter what makes her unconscious, her body is still going to try to void the food. If it were me, I’d use a sleeping pill, find a way to keep my head tilted so I don’t choke, and sleep on a tarp on the bathroom floor for ease of cleanup.
You don't “have to” anything. You can continue with him, you can drop him if he makes you uncomfy.
Personally I wouldn't stay with a person where the phrase “tinder masturbating habit” applies. Dunno wtf a tinder masturbating habit is but it sounds not-great.
There are PLENTY of success stories about threesomes that ARE NOT posted about on Reddit because relationship bias is a thing that exists. With that being said, anytime a situation like this really comes about, its important to be confident with your boundaries. And you do not seem to be. Maybe give it some more time. Talk to wifey about how you're feeling. I seriously wish you the best of luck. And… happy birthday.
Girl she is an absolute shitperson. You are doing the right thing.
Dancing is a great idea! Always wanted to learn! Thanks for the encouragement!
Let me put it that way. If it was mandatory by law, or if everyone man would simply do it regardless of their trust, then the world would be a better place, as no man would be deceived into raising someone else's child.
This is an insult and an accusation only if you decide to see it as such. Again, if this is what decided not against her, but as something he will do regardless of everything that might happen, it is perhaps even a good thing.
There are man that trust their partners and ended up being deceived. It doesn't mean you shouldn't trust your partner, but it means that doing paternity in general is a good idea. You can argue a perceptive person will get his suspicion anyway. Yes, but some people aren't exactly the sharpest in that regard.
Yeah, that combined with the recent change in behaviour screams guilt (even if its just emotional). Sure, crushes can happen even if someone is in a relationship. But the right thing to do is put boundaries in place with the other person, and allow the feelings to pass. But she's totally revelling in her feelings for this guy, and she's trying to justify it in her head by finding faults with you.
She's gonna have to learn to be independent sooner or later, because she can't have it both ways.
You deserve better than this.
Jesus fuck down the rabbit hole I gooooooooo
The comment that every time you fall into a downward spiral, he’s not doing enough for you kind of makes you sound overly dramatic and needy. You guys have been together for close to a decade and you want to be married, yet all you do in your post is complain about him. Who knows what you say to his face, but maybe he’s so passive because he’s walking on egg shells around you.
Pocket checking is done by the wearer not the cleaner 100% I do a lot of the laundry… I have lost more than a few sets of ear buds… to both of us, that is never on the person putting laundry on!
I say it is his job to check pockets as the laundry pile should be ready to wash as is. He says it is my job to check pockets before putting stuff in machine.
Oh my fucking God.
My parents have been married for 30+ years and they STILL have this argument. Mom flat out said she doesn't check pockets, and so Dad's lighters, candy or tissues get washed sometimes….usually once every couple weeks.
It still pisses them both off!
So while this is probably something you will be able to both improve on (my Dad tries to check his pockets and so does my mom if she sees a pair of jeans she knows usually have something in them), you might have to both come to terms that the other might not be likely to change completely, haha.
This is why I always tell people to make sure you are going to live! the same lifestyle first. My husband and I are both gamers and spend most our time indoors, and we’re happy with this. But if I had married a man who had even a slight outdoorsy mentality, he’d be very unhappy with how much time I spend gaming.
Tell her you aren’t interested. Honesty works.
Oh shit. Does that make me white as well? I had no idea. My parents are going to be so surprised!!
Just from the title. You are NOT overreacting, everyone else is under reacting. From the text, you are completely correct to stand by your beliefs. Let them be the one in an accident if they don't want to listen to reason. Stay safe OP
Just from the title. You are NOT overreacting, everyone else is under reacting. From the text, you are completely correct to stand by your beliefs. Let them be the one in an accident if they don't want to listen to reason. Stay safe OP
I want to delay the wedding at least until he gets some therapy but I can't do that
There will be a site that has bots using AI and facial recognition to disclose identities of people who did porn. It will be like a search engine that people can use, and most likely won’t be targeted against any individual (unless they’re famous or something), just cleaned up data.
I’m not saying that’s a good thing, just something that wouldn’t be illegal.
The practical and popular use of that will be allowing users to find pics and vid’s of them on the internet that they didn’t know existed (like if you’re in the background of some random persons pic, or if you’re walking by someone making a video for YouTube. Things like that).
I don’t recall sexting qualifies as “catching up”. Sounds like your still in a love triangle and she has no intention of changing that dynamic. At this point you need to make a decision for what’s best for you. Because all her decisions are most certainly about what’s best for her.
I’ll give an update now!
She should send someone to pick it up or sell it and the buyer pick it up and be done with the pedo.
Get a dancing monkey.
Low libido, poor hygiene, he sounded like having depression or sth. Maybe he was on drugs and you didnt know? Maybe he had a traumatic event happening to him that you just were not informed about? Or maybe he has gone on hormonal therapy now, and has a healthy libido now, who knows?
I know you feel like it must have been sth with YOU,but 8 years is enough time for drastic changes, I bet there is is story behind it, but a story revolving only him, and not you.
Also, do you find having two girls simultaneously, even normal? I mean,it doesn't sound like a solid stable relationship to me. if you look it this way, you still seem to be the stable, normal one. Be kind to yourself
I commented the same. It seems like OP and her husband do have a strong relationship with good communication and I’m glad they talked it through.
If you see this OP, this level of trust and communication is awesome. Take care of yourselves and lean on each other through this nude time. You’ll still have pangs of grief for a while but you’ll feel a little stronger every day (and worse on other days-that’s okay) and eventually you’ll feel joy despite hurt again!
I would think in that scenario that it would be one of those friend that doesn’t want to tell her the real truth because he doesn’t want her to be deeply hurt (obviously not a logical thought, people aren’t logical infallible beings) so he just wants her to ends things with her fiancé because it’s better for her. Very dramatic shit but I grew up around dramatic af people ahah.
They are more likely to leave if you don't make them weight. They only want sex from the women they meet. If the girl sleeps with him on the first date he'll be gone. You're right. I'm just saying you can minimize the risk of a guy doing that by making him wait which is a way of seeing if they are truly looking for a relationship.
I bet he would love for you to go on a trip to spend time alone with your ex. Seriously, some people just love to put their partners in situations they would never be ok with.
Talk to a lawyer!
OP, I feel sad that my fiancé dated his ex because she cheated on, berated, and financially abused him for his kind and giving heart. Not because she’s not pretty or successful or rich enough. Unless you’re majorly burying the lede here and your ex was really shitty to you, your gf is shallow and showing you her true colors.
It’s obvious from your responses and comments that you fully aren’t listening to anyone here, so do what you’re gonna do I suppose. But you’re in for a bad time.
I'm sorry I can't be the only one laughing ???